Commandment debate points

(Archived Post)

Sound Teruah : April 2016

Here is a letter to a brother in Y’shua, I thought that it my be of help to others who find themselves debating the validity of the Commandments, the Torah, in these times.

Dear Zachary,

I watched most of your debate with John regarding the fulfilling or the doing away of the Torah by Y’shua. (My wife Tamra found your channel a couple of weeks ago and we’ve been looking in from time to time.) It is always great to see like-minded people, Hebrew roots – Torah believing, keeping believers in Y’shua Messiah sprinkled all over this great country.

I really wanted to jump into this debate. The ‘tactics’ I want to share have been successful for and against a variety of Christian persuasions. Yahweh set me straight when I was 28 years old, I’m now approaching 58. You remind me of my younger days.

My wife suggested that I write to you to share some points to perhaps add to your Scriptural ammo. Maybe there will be something here you can use to change the minds of these ‘law nailed to the cross’ people. We do this so that the door may be open to truth. Here goes:

Stay in the New Testament

This knocks over their first pillar, the handy “that’s the OLD Testament” dismissal.

Heaven and earth passes

Start at the Sermon on the Mount. Use their arguments against them. We want to expose the fact that they don’t keep the Commandments because they don’t want to. M5:7 Think not that I have come to destroy the law but to fulfill. They’ll say He did it all, He kept it for us, we can’t possibly keep the law better than He did. Define the word fulfill as replete. Then move to the famous jot and tittle… till all be fulfilled. Ask when is this? the Crucifixion? It says till heaven and earth pass, when does heaven and earth pass? Show them here:

(You and I know that they think fulfillment took place at the cross, we also know that Y’shua suffered the death sentence in our place, that we deserve, for breaking the commandments. He did not suffer so that we would become free to sin. I usually state this to them.)

Now go to Revelation. Most pastors don’t ever deal with this book. R21:1 shows that after the tribulation, and after the Millennium Reign only do we see the new heaven and new earth, with New Jerusalem.

Who’s side are you on?

Stay in Revelation and ask who is the dragon? They’ll say it’s the devil, of course. Point out that the devil is really furious with some people, and he’s gone to war with them. Now, if the devil is at war with someone, who’s side would you be on? What are these people doing that has brought about such fury from the pit of hell? Then read R12:17. There are people who the Bible calls Saints, what are they doing? Read R14:12, then 22:14. Point out that’s 3 times in a book of prophecy aimed at our time.

But, we’re under the New Covenant

WE’RE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT! I love it when they say this because it’s (the debate is) over! A reply: great! what is it? You’ll get a blank stare. I’ve seen some very smart people silent on this one. In my experience, not one of the opponents of Torah has ever answered this. I’ve had one say, well, uh, it’s an agreement between God and man. (So there!) Yes, then you might politely ask them what’s in the agreement (I know you’ve done this). The nervous responses come in a barrage, but never the contents of the Covenant. I remember asking a Jehovah’s Witness, who was there to teach me, asking her to remember that I told her. She said remember what? Go to Hebrews 8:8-12. I said I’ll never see you again, remember that I told you about the New Covenant. The New Covenant is about where the contents are placed, not remotely as on the stones, but directly in the mind and on the heart, lovingly, by the finger of Yah. It’s permanent!


By this point they typically realize there is little wiggle room and that their positions are more fragile than they realized. Yet many will eventually reason over time that they have the gifts of the Holy Spirit, which proves their position is secure. One more item, learned from Michael Rood, which I’ve added to my arsenal, is the word “anomia.” It forces nay-Sayers to admit their selfishness and rebellion against Yahweh’s Torah. It’s again in the book of Matthew, and Y’shua deals with this very issue.

M7:21-23 Point out that this is about the use of the Spiritual gifts. Ask how Y’shua could say “I never knew you” to a solid church person, particularly one who manifest the Spiritual gifts. To them this is impossible! Worker of iniquity? Not me!… until you ask them to look up that word iniquity (anomia). They’ll pull out their phone, as I witnessed not long ago, look and quietly close it. Ask them what it said. They may not respond, if not mention illegality, violation of law, wickedness? They, if they won’t admit it, know inside that they don’t keep the commandments, because they truthfully don’t want to. Sometimes people will come right out and admit it.

Do we stone the adulterous woman?

In John’s Gospel, chapter 8, we find the trap the Pharisees set for Y’shua, an adulterous woman was dropped into the middle the group. Verse 5 says the Pharisees pointed out that Moses in the law commanded us that she should be stoned, what say you? Notice that this is the same question you’re being asked by the liberal grace-license people. They are attempting the same trap against you.

Y’shua says fine, the one without sin, let him cast the first stone at her. He convicted them to such an extent that they dropped their stones and they all walked away. Many of them were guilty of adultery as well. I hope they repented of their own sin. With her accusers gone, Y’shua said that he didn’t condemn her either. But this is where the liberals want to stop. Y’shua forgave her thankfully, because this set a precedent, it is a picture of the punitive sentence set aside for us and the forgiveness of our sins. At the end He admonished her, to go and sin no more! Quit sinning! Not, your OK, it doesn’t matter any more!

I’ve had great success with this course, You and I know an essential component of repentance is the changing of the mind, a changing of the heart and a return to the starting point. Yes, it’s our job to teach repentance. Again, I hope that there’s something here that you can use.

Thanks for the work you’re doing out there.

Your brother in Messiah Y’shua,

David Garman